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Honestly I think that map rng is the most unbalanced thing in dbd. I’m a killer main and sometimes I’ll get maps with massive dead zones or enough pallets to make Home Depot blush. Glad to see a big creator addressing this.
@Smirxx -_- Fortnite pfp instead of searching through the comments you should search for your father
@mr. pink ratio
Legit it sucks. Imagine getting red forest as a Myers or getting the hospital as billy
@Smirxx -_- thats not skill dude, thats flat rng
Actually the map RNG is designed to be completely predictable; when I'm playing killer there's tons of connected loops and pallets but when I'm playing survivor there's 3 total loops on the map.
@Bye were you playing Freddy on the old cold win slaughterhouse map? And did the survivors hold you hostage for a half hour?
I run windows of opportunity every game since the buff, and when I see that most of the map is a dead zone I sigh and just try to get as much bp as possible before the inevitable collapse. Depending on which killer I'm going against, as well as how horrible the map rng, is the only reason I will dc from time to time. If the maps weren't so bad, I would go against any killer no matter what
FR lmaoo. And strong map offerings are only used when I play killer.
@Rik SAME OMFG
I propose a solution to this, I think if we tweak the pigs kit(it’s a little strong) we can easily solve the bad rng map problem
My solution is we should remove all licensed characters and maps, therefore less work for balancing, and less rng problems because of less maps
@everyone is looking at this the wrong way, you need to add a pallet trinket
@Timeus The not very clever guy oh fuck 😭
Nerfing Myers would fix it
Thats one idea... but what If we also took away Dowsey's skins???
props to Otz and his DBD expert buddies, this must've taken a long time to make this video
Good job to everyone who put in the time for this research!
@i better call thanks for the clip man i really needed it
It took a week
Cuz my name is
The last time I saw a map this bad, 13 dwarves were trying to figure out a way into the lonely mountain.
@i better call twitttttttteitttetuot
@i better call t
@i better call true red
Literally watched the hobbit a few hours ago 💀
@DAS Känguru thanks 😉, oh and don't forget the halfling.
The worst one I've had was playing blight on the game, the survivors had six out of seven gens spawn bottom floor, didn't even know that was possible! I could basically just go back and forth on the bottom and I automatically won
@Buteco de Sentina that is for shure i will always have very long games were people get 3 gens almost instantly, and i only get one or two hooks but at they manage to get to 1 gen and i kill someone then i win because they cant get the last one whith 3 people
@kushpakk you literally just proved their point lmfao
i JUST had this happen today on rpd. 5 gens spawned extremely close together in the main lobby, the killer literally stood right in the middle and chased us off gens, hit them with call of brine, and go back and do it again. We were stuck in the match for 45 minutes..
@Wonderful Rose nah, the point that the only ‘viable’ killers are killers that completely negate major parts of the game is a valid counterpoint on which side has an advantage. The simple fact that is the case speaks volumes
Two days I played on Azarov's Resting Place. There were 2 gen on the office side and 5 gen on the killer shack side. Shack had a gen, the tile on the left side had a gen, the first tile "in the middle" had a gen, a bus(or was it the crane?) spanwned top right of shack before the first middle tile then a hill to the right of shack with a gen. Legion had quite the easy time pressuring 5 gens at the same time with Iri button and something else.
The worst (or ig best for me) map generation I've seen was on old grim pantry. I could stand next to the gen on top of the pantry and had a clear view of every other gen in the game. I was Wraith so none of them were more than a couple seconds away, literally had a 7 gen
@Joyful Leader he got hit by blood warden and no way out max stacks on a infinite Mori Myers
@Icy Flames What was it?
The Grim Pantry...JRM would be proud
You just dredged up a very traumatic memory of that happening to me as survivor.
*Due to recent talk on map rng, we've decided to increase every maps size by 20 meters and increase the number of gens by 3*
can't wait to see the massive fire up bonus
Not sure why these jokes are still a thing, BHVR has been making great changes lately.
@The Doom Slayer I am saying that as this specific killer/person in their next que time in this scenario.
@Akali xEvelynn u mean survivor. If it was that bad for killer there would be no killers so it would take that long for survivors Whereas for killer Q would be instant
*Killer time in que: 1hr 12 min 36 seconds*
I would get that suffocation pit luck but then immediately hear nurse
This makes me think they should add some type of min and max pallet/ structure system wherein the tile spawns are still rng but you won’t be getting nearly as many insane tiles or excess/ shortage of pallets.
@FishTacoDeluxe IMO take all map, find like 2-3 variation that are somewhat balanced for both side, orientation of tiles included and call it a day. We currently have 38 different map, 40 if you include the OG Raccon City & Hawkins Lab. 38x3=114 map combinaison.Yes good player would end up leaning them all but who care if they're somewhat balance? Also once we have "balanced maps" we can look at problematic killers and finetune them properly.
@The Doom Slayer yeah that's why I think of pinhead as a really solid killer concept both his passive and active power. Especially with hoarder.
@Magic_0ne maybe, but the problem with any side objective is it has to be REALLY mandatory or the question will always arise which is "why wouldnt i just do gens?" things like pinhead's box MAKE you do them so survivors dont have a choice, or pigs reverse beartrapsthose are side objectives a killer forces onto the survivors but it also gives them something to do other than gens. it would be hard to give them a meaningful side objective that you can justify doing over gens without it being part of a killer power that REALLY screws them over if they dont do it
@The Doom Slayer Honestly breakable walls are a whole other issue entirely. Boring ass mechanic that could have been WAAY more interactiveFor example: Lets say survivors have to collect wood scrap from broken pallets and then they can use said wood scrap to build breakable walls. Of course this would mean most breakable walls (with the exception of killer favored ones such has badham preschool) would NOT spawn and the survivors would have to spend time getting scrap and building the walls.I find that to be a more interesting alternative and adds a secondary objective to the game. Idk tho it sounds good on paper but might not be in practice. Hard to say.
@Magic_0ne even on the smallest map like dead dog there's walls that MUST be broken or the loop is a borderline infinite for survs
I absolutely love this type of video, dbd map generation has been a Grey zone in my game knowledge for ages and I'd love to learn more about it. If you could make a video in the future about it that would be amazing!
@AMGC 7 oh shit great thanks for the info man
No promises since it is his decision but he said he would make a video about it once I finished analyzing all the maps, I m about 27.5/38 maps done so far.
Regular Killer mains: "Pallets after pallets after pallets! They never end! What a shitty RNG!".Nurse mains: "What pallets?"
The key to be happy as killer is main nurse
0:57 I feel like Midwich is an exclusively hookless map. So many times that I can't make it to a hook because there are absolutely non nearby and the survivor gets out for free, wasting the last minute or so of my time just so I have to chase them pre-dropping everything all over again.
I've played against hook hackers on Midwich and when I picked someone up off the ground, who DIDN'T have Boil Over, I only saw Basement hooks and like 2 hooks on the top floor on the opposite side of the map.
@Lord Of Lemon I 100% agree
I full-heartedly agree, it feels like the most problematic map in the game. Every other map I've found some way to play around, but Midwich can just be absolutely horrible sometimes, for both killer and survivor. As a (new) survivor, it is absurdly difficult to even find the generators due to the indoors structure of the map with gens hidden away in back corners of distant rooms. Also, since most of the map is just straight corridors, the map offers very little counterplay to survivors being chased.As a killer, the gens are often too far from each-other to patrol and the hook spawns can be awful, especially when survivors use map offerings. It just feels like the map needs more access points, the current layout is way too segmented.Also, the map is just a nightmare for new players to navigate. You can complain about RCPD as much as you like, but at least when you move towards your destination you can usually intuitively figure out a way to get there, regarless of how much you know about the access points between the three floors. In Midwich, you are forced to always memorize each staircase's position in relation to yourself in order to reach any gens/hooks in the top floor, which can be extremely difficult for someone who has terrible spatial awareness (me). On any Midwich game, I regularly find myself spending upwards of 20 seconds trying to locate the closest entry point to the top floor. And that's just locating it, not actually walking the whole distance up the staircase and across the hallways.Maybe I just need to git gud, but idk. To me, the whole map feels sort-of haphazard and out-of-place in DbD.
Having map RNG in my eyes is a good thing as it helps to eliminate the majority of predetermined map based strategies where one side has almost no chances of dealing with the strategy, as a result this puts an emphasis on the individuals ability to improvise and adapt which is great at raising the skill level of the game rather than the opposite which would reduce chases to doing the same safe and optimised series of loops again and again (also not saying this stuff doesn't still happen)... But only when it's finely tuned to prevent the situations shown from occurring.
What kind of strategy are impossible to deal with? Like some shitty ass trapper basement set up? Reducing the RNG might expose some strategy even more but that mean it's also easier to fix them.
i agree entirely! ithink fixed set loops would be much more painful and bad for the game because of what you said.
The map RNG is both the best & the worst part about DBD. Just the other day, I posted about it, I got a gen that spawned inside the mannequin room above the bathroom in The Game. And was so shocked about it. I have nearly 3k hrs in this game and I've never seen that before.
I had an RPD where you could see 4 gens from upstairs of main
@Sakuya Izayoi The hidden map corner? I haven't heard of that. What is it, exactly?
@Chloe that one is a different kind of busted, that allows the hidden map corner gen to spawn
yeah it's weir, sometimes dead dawg doesn't have a generator at gallows either
Oh yes that gen spawn is incredibly rare. I've only had it happen in a match one time. It's also a very scary gen to have because it's so close to another one
When people say coal tower is balanced I just can't agree, it almost ALWAYS spawn with multiple intertwining loops especially with the main building window, and rarely can you generate any kind of dead zones due to their always a safe structure being available against m1 Killers.
Yeah, I’ve never liked coal tower. It’s better than sheltered woods, but not by much. I’m pretty sure Scott spewed the narrative that coal tower was the best map, and ppl just went along with it. I’d rather have Gideon than coal tower tbh
The main thing that makes Coal Tower good is that it's pretty small, meaning it's easier to patrol.
@Sebastian Olsson I don't remember,that the Second Floor of Coal Tower used to have Windows at any time in the game
Intertwining loops isnt necessarily an issue. In fact, intertwining loops is what you want to create deadzones.The problem with intertwining loops doesnt really come unless its oriented towards another intertwining loop, then you have a problem. on Coal Tower, you have 2 loops, intertwining with a middle section(a hill with a gen, a weak pallet with no gen, or a deadzone with a gen and some clutter) and then another structure that can connect with killershack. So yeah, you will always spawn with multiple intertwining loops, thats what makes it the most balanced map overall. Have only 1 or 2 intertwining loops, and its a killersided map, having a quarter of the map be 1 single loop and its a survivor sided map.
Yeah, at least the main building doesn't have windows on the second floor anymore 😂
Yesterday I played on Eyrie and had 6 hooks total on it. One corner simply did not have hooks or generators in the 30m radius. This game suprizes me sometimes :D
I had a garden of joy map yesterday with only 7-8 hooks around the edge of the map, nothing in the middle, and no hooks around the main house. It was almost impossible to hook someone who went down there.
crazy to think that someone running breakdown with those hook spawns could’ve singlehandedly lost you the game
Dance with me, I beg.
The second one is literally unfair for any survivor team, good or not
I never said it was a loss for the survivor team I'm just saying that it's statistically stacked against them no matter who they are
@DODANG_ 914 as I said in my first response to you, MacMillan does need changes, connected tiles allow for combinations stronger than before (longwall jungle gym with its window into the window of a trashpile gym) and its rules / other features didnt get updated to adjust for it, adjacent maze tiles are a problem and 4/5 maps are too large for comfort.The 8 pallet rule isnt bugged, it is bugs on other stuff that is making some maps bypass the rule. Wretched Shop can have 6 pallets (featured in the honorable mentions) and it is clear why, the main building is missing 2 guaranteed pallets that should always spawn, which would increase the count to 8. I reported that bug myself before the contest had even begun.The case with MacMillan is deeper, the trashpile gym has been seemingly bugged forever counting as 2 pallets instead of 1 pallet + 1 window, it wasn't a problem before (since the maps where it appeared had better rules to prevent chaos) but now it combined with a byproduct bug on the new double vault tile that is counting as 1 pallet & 1 window instead of 2 windows; and they are in MacMillan, a realm where chaos reigns. Again, I m the one that made this hypothesis, not Otz, and if anything it should be credited to the 2 people that submitted Storehouse with below 8 pallets as the ones that found the bug.
@AMGC 7 Did not know that two tiles cannot spawn next to each other, but issue is that you can still have jungle gym into 2 T-L facing each other into Jungle gym on suffocation pit. that setup still seems auto-win for the survivor. Coal tower has same setups but they are vertical instead of horizontal. Coal tower was said to be most balanced because the other maps which are farm maps and old autohaven maps were even more imbalanced. Like if anyone remember old blood lodge, old blood lodge was called pallet lodge. Now a days, Gideon is the new pallet lodge. none of their old maps were balanced because none of their basic tiles individually were balanced except T-L which has problems with bloodlust along with four wall. 8 pallet rule seems bugged with new tiles. Otz spotted a bug in that case.
@DODANG_ 914 8 pallets being the minimum in every map has been established by the devs officially, if a map gets below 8 pallets it is because of a bug, Otz explains in the video that it is only possible due to a coding error that is making one of the structures count pallets that aren't there, said hypothesis was conceived by me, one of the other 2 judges. I studied the case and noticed how 2 of the introduced maze tiles have discrepancies in their code names, leading to said conclusion.MacMillan does have a rule that implies not having the same type of maze tile back to back if it isn't LT walls, it is not an opinion, it is a fact proven by countless evidence (and it is featured in the video at 5:00). If you have seen 2 classic jungle gyms back to back in the center of Suffocation Pit and believe there can be 4 classic jungle gyms in there, bring me evidence before the next patch and I will grant you an equivalent prize to the top 1 map in this contest. Spoiler: it is impossible because the rule exists.
@AMGC 7 there is no rule like that. i have seen 2 jungle gyms in the center of suffocation pit. I don't know if there is limit for pallets. otz showcase a map with less then 5 pallets so that rule is not true either. My understanding is that tile-set have a set spawn and what spawns is random. so in theory, 4 jungle gym can spawn in center of suffocation pit. Its not likely to occur, but it can happen. it was more common before ormond jungle gym and new tiles were put into the map.
Honestly 70% of this game's issues would be solved with better map generation.I will sometimes get fun maps where catching a surivor of guard will net me a free hit, but after that chasing is still a possibility. Other times, no matter what the survivors do, they will always die because they had to use the one pallet available. Then the next game I DC because I feel like I've broken 10 pallets, and they still get chasing value because of ridiculous window spawns, and when they finally get blocked, there are 5 other pallets waiting to be used.
"We've received a few complaints about rng being too much of a deciding factor in matches. We hear you, and have decided to nerf pig. Her traps now have a 100% chance to be removed at the first box, removing all random chance from the equation"-Bhvr, probably
I was literally playing onis map yesterday, and there was no hooks around me. They were all in the corners and the map being kinda big I ended up losing 3 hooks. The survivors took advantage of this because they kept going in the center where that pyramid structure was so they could go down and escape.
Sanctum of Wrath
and which map is onis
0:36 to be fair, Eyrie of Crows makes killers want to cry regardless
@Andrew nah you weird
@I dislike like furries greatlyL name
@Predated O eh, man. You're just doing mental gymnastics here. Main building is objectively strong. It doesn't mean you are unkillable there, but it is strong. I know nothing about loops in this game but every time I play survivor on Eerie I can feel that it's definitely easier to chain tiles. Also your trapper piece is just wrong, sorry lol. If trapper's main objective is to deny loops with traps, it doesn't mean grass isn't essential to him.
@Jack K. I think the Eyrie of Crows has nearly fixed RNG.In my experience it's even more Survivorsided than Fractured Cowshed
@Ridenberg eh main building isn't that bad it's just the map is huge
Maps and SWF are the two main things hurting the design of the game. Both need heavy rework and evaluation
I agree that some tile distributions were insane, but this study completely neglected the generator RNG. And tbh, generator RNG can be as bad as tile RNG. If the suffocation map had 5 generators on the main building side (it does exist on I-shape maps like suffocation pit or azarov, faced one recently btw), it would not have been on the worst RNG ever for killers, especially for territorial killers such as hag/trapper (or any killer with kick-gen build). I would have only considered 4-survivors KyF lobbies and real public games for this contest: bad or god-like RNGs should consider both tile/gate and generator RNG, imo. Despite these criticisms, a very interesting YT movie, and thank you to point out these extreme RNG issues.
All of the winning entries being MacMillan maps says a lot about the RNG of them as a whole. No doubt that map RNG applies across the board, but god damn, they need to fix map RNG.
Mac Millan had the wildest rng before its new tiles but it got even wilder now. Not only u have the coding errors allowing below 8 pallets iterations but the ruleset of the realm didnt get any changes, despite adding new maze tiles into its kit. Right now MacMillan has obsolete rules and you can easily perceive it with the funny window into funny window cases.
To be fair, they seem to be looking at maps being unbalanced in regards to RNG first and foremost, and down prioritizing maps that are busted on default like Garden of "joy"´s main building.
probably because atm its got the biggest amount of different jungle gyms+the apparently bugged one that eats a pallet lmao
Makes me think of that one time I got suffocation pit with ONLY T and L walls in the middle area that were all oriented to chain perfectly into one another. The poor Michael had to drop chase whenever someone went there bc he couldnt get a single hit.
Not surprised about the first map. Suffocation pit always has a ridiculously impossible middle for the majority of matches. It is literally physically impossible for M1 killers to deal with it and good survivors know this and exploit this fact.
for real i hate that damn map when playing killer. it can be easy to 3 gen but you have to deal with the fuckin middle section so whats the point
And it is even stronger now with the new tiles in MacMillan, before you could get a max of 2 jungle gyms, now you can add other strong maze tiles to that middle while still having those 2 devils.
I had a coal tower the other day that didn't seem too crazy in terms of tiles, but there were like 4 gens all around the middle of the map, two scourge hooks placed perfectly between them - and the killer was a legion with surge and pain res. It was basically impossible for him to lose that game
I've been to "80% of map is deadzone" so many times and raged about it... I never thought that maps are generated.. I thought that there were # of map layouts and we just get one of those randomly.. but it's actually RNGing all pallets and stuff :/I'm even more disappointed in Bhvr now
I assumed that it was rng based.I highly doubted the pre layout after getting a map where there were 4 T and L tiles.No way they would preemptively make a map where survivors have no loops
so did i. i cant believe we have to hope to get good rng in hopes of at least standing a chance against a killer/survivors
Fantastic video as always Otz, never knew Map RNG could be this impactful!
Hello there, third Twins main
I remember a match i had as Leather Face in Hawkins, where i spent the entire game just breaking pallets. I maybe went through 7 pallets on side with the basement in the lab, and about 5 or 6 more on the other side. And of course it was on a map known for the lack of good pallet spawns
Once i found a map similar to the 1st place when i was playing killer, and i'm not good but i found that map so hard to win, i won because the survs were bad, but even with that it took a lot of work
Thank you Otz for bringing attention to this with your platform. Hopefully the devs actually do something about this soon.
Damn, I would‘ve loved to send my most broken map in. I was on Wreckers Yard, with Spirit and had a absolutely disgusting 4 gen, with a even more unfair 3 gen. It was a insta win from the start. The 3 gen was at a corner of the map, 2 gens where at either side of the corner with 1 pallet gym, the other in a deadzone and 1 gen in the middle of it, next to a bad filler pallet (the one with tires piled up). The gens were about 5 sec of walking time apart and I could basically see all of the 4 gens by barely moving.
I had a match with Spirit awhile back on Suffo pit. I didn't know there was any challenge, but there were I think 3 Jungle Gyms all centralized in the middle accompanied by 2 4 walls that lead directly the the mines, which also had the filler loops around it and the stronger window spawning. I only managed to get a 1k after an Ace made the most questionable (staying by the hook during endgame across the map from the gate and also not unlocking the gate he was next to) play, which just goes to show that even stupid survivors can loop the Killer forever if they get a strong setup.
Thank you for doing these videos. I struggle at keeping up insane knowledge required to stay good at this game, these help so much :)
One time I was playing as legion on suffocation pit, the main building had a vault that also had a giant boulder that broke line of sight long enough to break chase. So the vault was safe to loop for all time. Everyone I chased ran to that vault (it was a swf).
I was on Lery's as killer and I downed three survivors at the exit, but literally couldn't hook any of them. There were no hooks, so they all escaped.
@Palu Gaming I've experienced it. It's rare but it can happen.
@Palu Gaming I killed one survivor near the exit and then the last three got free escapes. It was rough.
Well to be fair there's always 1 hook near exit gate, sometimes 2 and you downed 3 survivor at the exit which you can only hook 1 survivor since the other 2 can leave, you already lose anyway. Or did you already use the hook near exit?? I never experienced no hooks near exit, there's always 1-2 hooks.
it gets worse when survivors with boil over and flip flop and unbreakable run to corners of the map with zero hooks. I literally cannot do anythingthey know they can't be hooked they'll just go to the fucking corner instead
@Jack Matutum RPD is the best exmaple of a terrible map design both before and after update. You either have a room that no survivor can go in if thew killer is blocking entrance, easiest locaions to camp a survivor with shit ton of strong pallets and to top it all off map is one of (if not the) biggest maps in the game.
Oh my goodness, I've actually had a Coal Tower that reminded me of this. I'm sure it wasn't this bad but it felt like they had a pallet/window every 10 meters.
I love Coal Tower. Now that Hawkins was removed it is probably my favorite map in the game. You know how many times the game sent me there? 4. In hundreds if not thousands of games I got coal tower 4 times. Every day I'm sent to coldwind farm or Badham multiple times, maps I despise from the bottom of my soul but maps I actually like such as Coal Tower or Garden of Joy almost never get selected. It's like the game knows how to make me miserable.
I found this video really interesting! Otz should make another one like this but RNG specifically in the Killer’s favor. And another with RNG specifically in the Survivors favor. I’m sure the wonderful community would even it for free 😄
the weirdest thing i saw with them map gen was what i called a "surface basement", where 4 hooks spawned right next to one another and on a farm, which left me with only 3 other hooks to work with
I wish I had entered this competition I could have topped the Suffocation Pit with the very same map.On the side of the map to main structure all the Filler tiles had no pallets other than 2 and for the most part it was just purely open space, I had to deal with that against an Iri Head Huntress who had a 3 gen on that side of the map.On top of all that she also had the hatch spawn on her side of the map and both doors were also on her side of the map which she just stood still in front of main and glanced left and right at them...Yes we lost xD
I know I’m a killer main who has had maps like that suffo pit where I’ve cried about my powerlessness, but even I have to agree that the groaning storehouse in second place is so aids. Four pallets in a fairly big map is absolutely terrible. I feel bad for the people that had to play there :(
I had a suffocation Pit playing as wesker recently with back to back windows in a couple places with good pallets, both of which could not be played around. I had the single worst experience in that map as a killer in all my dbd career lol. Not to mention I was wesker, my power was almost useless in the middle and I got bullied for it by the survivors
The worst rng ive ever seen was like 2 weeks ago when i was blight on shelter woods, which in most cases is a good thing... except the rng for the survivors was unreal. It was 1 ormind long wall tile into a long wall into another ormind long wall into shack. The other side of map still had a good 7+ pallets not counting another long wall in corner behind shack. Went into the match thinking it was an ez win bc blight on the map famous for being a deadzone, but there was no deadzone.
During a coal tower 1v1 i once had the best possible map rng as survivor ever and ran the killer for like 5 minutes+ After that got a layout where there were only T L walls on entire map with no filler maps and lost in around a minute. Went from my funniest map rng experience to a really frustating one
I find it really interesting that all of these were on Macmillan maps which are generally considered the most balanced of the bunch
Midwich is absolutely dire for hooks sometimes, especially if the survivor has Boil Over - which often forces you to drop/slug.RPD is awful always.
Maybe it's time to remove the RNG from map layouts and just have 3 preset layout pools for each map. That way it's easier to balance, and easier for both survivor and killer to memorize.
I swear that whenever I get Coal Tower that's mostly the layout I get playing both sides. I always felt it was a survivor sided map because it's jam-packed with loops. Only once I think I got a dead zone adjacent to the Shack.
Great video. I thought I was going crazy once when I ran into a complete dead zone on a red forest map once. I didn't know it was this bad at times.
First off all I just wanna appreciate the godly content even though I don't even play dbd anymore. And also I'm wondering how many times I just got goofed on because of ridiculous rng
You know what would be so cool and kinda fun to mess with. A map editor feature in dbd so you could recreate these maps and try to win on them or just see if you could make the worst possible map that the game could in theory make.
Have to say this is teaching more about how i want to make my own map titles for my Asymmetrical game always a pleasure Otz.
I recall once I encountered a suffocation pit that had a total of 7 pallets in it, including the ones that *had* to spawn.
The only bad map RNGs I've had were similar to the mention of Midwich of 3 hooks. It was 4 in my case (in a Silver II ranked game), and survivors would choose to be downed in a corner where there were none. Another was Coal Tower that was bad for survivors against my (very noobish) Hag. There were noticeable dead zones by the Coal Tower with no pallets.
While RNG helps keep the map interesting and keep everyone on their toes and learning, I do believe there needs to be certain minimums/maximums in the coding to prevent lack of hooks, too many pallets, etc.
I really appreciate your work there from everyone. This is still just a big pain to watch after all... so my friends which started the game new were right, there are maps with way too less pallets. I always answered like U have to play and experience more before complaining about rng
i remember one cold wind... that i felt bad for the survivors. most of the tiles were those weird hay bail ones with no pallets. the pallets they did have were on quad lanes but the weak set up, with nothing interconnected. and one combine. no hills.
I had a Game map once that had one hook on the entire bottom floor and it was tucked away in one of the corners where there was no generators or resources, so the survivor literally had no reason to ever be near that area. It was a terrible experience
The biggest issues with DbD: The maps, lack of killer balance (especially for Nurse) and soloQ vs SWF lack of balance.The maps is something i have been especially "vocal" about the last few days when running across half the map (or the entire side of one in some cases..) without seeing a single pallet or loop to use.
With maps as bad as 1 and 3 we need nurse just as she is
There should be a variable that consist of a god pallet and probably limit it to 1 to 3 per map. And have variables for the other tiles which are ranked in the code. Limit all of those, bad ones and god ones and it should be much more fair for everyone.
this is amazing content. And I really enjoy the academic nature of dbd content, people take this goofy game so seriously it's hilarious!
I had a map on Gideon meat plant yesterday and there literally wasn’t a single hook on one of the entire sides of the map it was so ridiculous
Gideon meat plant sucks overall, too many god pallets, literally a nightmare for m1 killlers.
Yesterday I had a match where Plague practically spawned in the same room as me and another survivor on RPD. The match was lost before it started.
No, by the rear exit and plague spawned in a hallway pointing to the rear exit.
let me guess, main hall?
I was playing Wesker and I used the Silent Hill offering, and I was shocked because I found two survivors spawn at the end of the same hallway I spawned. Shit is really fucked up, they woke up with my TR on their head
I totally forgot you were doing this challenge I had a match as Oni the other day on coal tower and it had 3 long wall jungle gyms 2 of those straight tiles wit the pallets like 5-6 of the fairly decent filler pallets the other 2 spots for tiles were the junk loops with the windows facing good areas and main building a perfectly placed window needless to say I didn’t win the game lol I wish I woulda recorded it to submit it
As much as I hate that bad map RNG can happen on older maps, they are still much better than all of the maps BHVR has made or reworked in the last 2 years. I like that I can land in about 6 different realms and you don't know what the map is like until you explore it, which is not the case for new Haddonfield, Eyrie of Crows or Garden of Joy among others.Honestly I hope they don't fix them because we probably won't like the way they'll fix them.
Just yesterday, I played on that version of the wretched shop or at least something very similar. It felt like there were no pallets anywhere and needless to say, it was not fun
I remember being on a Gideon’s as Huntress where the jungle gym pallet didn’t spawn and there was a hook in pretty much every room, going as far as having two in opposite sides of the same room, looking at each other, I think it was the room with the staircase in the center and the pallet to the right of it.
I was playing on the game once and so many pallets spawned on the map, I was convinced that if a pallet could be there it was there
I don't remember how the map turned out tile-wise, but one time on suffocation pit as the artist, both I and all of the survivors spawned within sight of each other on the main-building side. I didn't even need the lethal pursuer i brought to see all 4 of them as soon as I spawned in, and I was able to immediately get into chase
i love how otz makes these type of videosit feels very professional to play...❤️love u man, keep up
Even though I do think that this game for the most part is survivor sided, a total of 5 pallets is a bit too rough for survivors 😅
I really hope they introduce a system where each tile is weighted based on how strong or weak it is, and then give each map a value or "budget" for how strong/weak the game fills it out. Also make it so strong tiles are more likely to be next to weak tiles and vice versa to reduce the chance of stupidly strong interconnected loops. Seems like something the devs could actually implement, although balancing is another issue.
Yesterday i play on groaning storage and in 1 of the exit of main (the one without window) there was 4 fillers pallets back to back between shack-main- solo structure. It was so sick
I honestly thought there was like consistent a pool for tiles that'd always be placed down depending on the map, just in different locations each time... Just wow.
congrats to the winners :) I'll gladly take an honorable mention
Thank you for always be so informative. This really shows that sometimes loosing as a good killer isn't always survivor sided, it's sometimes more map sided ...
I've had some insane rng examples that the 2nd place result reminded me of:Once I had an ARP that mostly wasn't so bad, however the main building side literally had 0 pallets, or anything that could break LOS. All it had was main building, a T&L, a tire pile, and that was it. There was also an insanely strong 4 Gen, on top of mid Gen. This was also against a Nurse who knew what they were doing, so just an impossible game to win, when there's literally no way we can do the last 2 Gens.Another variation I had of ARP was actually in a comp match against a Huntress with a similar situation where shack side was almost completely empty. I got hit once, and I was forced to just run towards a rock and go edge map, because there was literally nothing there to loop. I didn't get to see all of main building side, but there was also a massive deadzone between the choke point and main, with only a T&L which is just death against Huntress, and the bus had the worst rng. There was possibly 1 filler pallet on that side, but it was also mostly empty. Shack side had Shack, a filler next to it, the old garbage truck loop, and the only jungle gym on the map all by itself. Honestly survivable RNG, but impossible to do anything against a Huntress.A final example I had, also came during an MMR test which just exacerbated the lack of resources. I got a Shelter Woods with 1 window on the map. There were 5 Pallet Gyms, 5 filler rock pallets (most of which were super isolated away from Gens), and Shack. Everyone was super new, so within 5 minutes nearly every Pallet Gyms was used, and at least 2 of the rock loop pallets. I had multiple chases where I did laps around the map and there was literally nothing I could use. I had never wanted a T&L more in my life. Only when I was out of chase did I notice the rock pallets in the absolute corners of the map.I've occasionally seen RNG as bad as in this video, for some reason during 1v1s (customs) I've noticed I got the worst RNG whether it be a variation of Storehouse that's literally empty, or a variation of Coal tower that's empty, or it's a variation of Storehouse with double pallets and 5 jungle gyms (all real, last one was a year or 2 ago tho).
Great information OTZ! Can’t wait to use this knowledge against the 10 nurses I play everyday 😃👍🏼
I’ve had 2 strong pallets spawn less than 8m apart on Eyrie of crows, the irony is that it was pallet Freddy so I threw them down assuming one or both was fake but they were real
I had a suffocation pit map with 5 jungle jims in the midle and 3 perfectly connected windows. Nurse brought this map offering and screamed in end game chat :,D
I may be alone in this, but I honestly believe the loop generation system is the BIGGEST problem with DBD. I understand making maps not predictable, but it's so random you get matches where one side or the other is completely destroyed simply because the survivors are near invincible for have nothing to work with. There NEEDS to be a percentage system that creates a set number of weaker and stronger loops so survivors have enough of a limited resource to stay alive, but if the killer plays well and works through it can continuously win chases and get hooks as well. Cowshed with Shack + 5 of those long loops + the main building means 7 nearly completely safe loops. And the bug causing only 5 pallets to spawn means bloodlust central. Absolutely disgusting.
The heaviest spawn I ever had was on Badham Preschool, there was a spot where 4 filler pallets spawned between Main and the building with two floors in a straight line, before that was the Killer Shack, two pallets on the street and behind the two buildings were also pallets.
I came back to play wesker, felt like I played perfectly on suffo pit but only just barley got one kill, I was confused untill I saw your breakdown of the tiles, it was almost exactly the same layout :(
When I started playing DBD I had the 5 parts in the middle of Suffocation pit being TL walls connecting directly into eachother, I am sure that cannot exist anymore
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I once had 6 connecting pallets on meat plant and cried when I got my first down at 1 gen 😭
Not as bad, but it reminds me of a game I had recently where there were two pallets not even 5 feet away from each other on the outside roof area of RPD, where the helicopter is supposed to be. There was a generator, two pallets, and the stairway window. Only one of the two got used because I was Oni and I managed to consistently hit the demon dash flicks.
I wish I took a video of this, but I had one game on one of the open farm maps with two really close hooks. And by close I mean you could use a Coup lunge, maybe even a normal lunge, to get from one to the other. And there was nothing in between them to block line of sight or to avoid a ranged attack either. Shame I was playing as Trapper that game
I swear i 4k’d yesterday with wesker on that exact map on the top 1 spot, only the exit gates were placed on other places
As a casual viewer of DbD I didn't even notice there was this kind of Map RNG. I just thought every map was the same except for where the Pallets spawn. You learn something everyday.
This is true horror thanks for showing us Otz :D
Funny, but I once got a Coal Tower with almost no filler tiles. I don't remember the edge structures, but in the centre there was just a hill and bare woods around 😁
The rest of the map wasn't too bad, but yesterday on RPD East I had two pallets five feet away from each other. The only thing that saved me from an extra couple minutes of chase time was that my survivors were all new.
I once had a Lery’s Memorial Institute map spawn three generators within about 4 meters of each other. Just one wall kept them apart lmao
I had the same exact hook layout on midwich once i thought i was going crazy, one half of the map unhookable. It got to me for sure
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On the first one I think I had a map like that, ran a trapper around for 5 gens. Was almost like he couldn't stop me. I used the whole map too.
I'v had rng so bad that it spawned 2 hooks close to eachother, and by close together, I mean to the point where the survivors were essentially face camping eachother. You couldn't even save them from the front that's how little space they had, You could only same them from the sides. It was both a survivors worst nightmare and a Bubba's wet dream.
As a killer, I was sent to a Gideon Meat Plant with NO hooks in the whole west side of the map. The survivors just ran me there each time once they got the idea.